stock complaint on entitled driver

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gimpPAC
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+1 jakeliefer

I think the big reason many people get upset to the point of being unsafe is because they see cyclists as “other”. If it’s safe to talk about it, I think there’s no problem with calmly saying something. You can at least show them that you are a person just trying to get somewhere like they are. Not everyone will react well to that, but it’s no reason not to try.

The biggest thing is to not react in a similar fashion. Even if you REALLY want to.


pogil
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@jakeliefer In 2000 I had someone lean on the horn when I had to merge into traffic on Morewood due to some parked cars ahead of me (there was no oncoming traffic, I signaled, but he was going a lot faster than I realized). I motioned him over to talk, and he did. He opened the window, grabbed his club with one hand and told me that he could have killed me. All I could muster at the time was “bicyclists share the road too.”


netviln
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@pogil It sounds like he was probably speeding. In that case.. maybe a “then you should probably obey the speed limit so you dont endanger anyone else” would have been appropriate.


pogil
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@netviln He definitely was speeding. At the time I was actually quite surprised and a bit flustered that he pulled over. That was a first, even though I’d tried it many times before!


sloaps
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I had someone pass me on the right going down 18th street wednesday evening while I was attempting to beat my max of 37 mph (cant even take the lane in this town…). they kept rolling through the stop signs i was stopping at, but i found myself behind them in the turning lane at the carson/birmingham bridge light. they lit up the tires on the buick and rolled on into oakland…

How the hell am I suppose to inform this driver of their hazardous ways, if they keep speeding away???


Willie
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Here is a funny story for everyone.

Sunday morning about 8 am I am rolling down carson with my girlfriend and a trailer full of camping gear heading towards the works. I am a few yards from the intersection right in front of the double wide grill. The light is red and there is a motorcycle cop at the light traveling the the other direction. Just as I am coming to the light a SUV races up behind me and tried to get in front of me at the light but cant becuase there is a car in the left hand turn lane and I am taking the right lane. The light turns green and the SUV speeds around me into oncoming traffic and was actually closer to the cop then he was to me. I yell “hey watch it” and “drive faster” as he tears up the street getting up to at least 45-50 mph. The cops laughs out loud and rides off. Makes me feel really safe knowing we have such a great emergency personnel here in Pittsburgh.


t
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that sucks, why should drivers respect the law or bicyclists when cops don’t.


t
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I had a cop tell me to “get on the sidewalk” which just so happened to be illegal considering my location.


spakbros
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The cops they assign to the southside are the worst in the city, come to think of it, yet another reason that I can’t stand the s.s.. ugh.


salty
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Well, after catching up on this thread and the other one about the SUV “love tap”, I headed off for work this morning. I’m riding down Beeler and I get passed by not one but two cars. After the second passes me, I glanced down at my speedometer which read 32. The speed limit is 25.

So, of course I catch up to them at the light. The first guy makes a right on red but I pull up to the driver’s window of the other car and scream “Have you ever heard of a speed limit?” and when I got no response, punctuated it with “a-hole”. The other guy doesn’t escape for long as I found him sitting at the light at Morewood and have a similar exchange.

So, I guess I wasn’t a very good ambassador for cycling today (although a lot of peds at Beeler & Forbes got a good laugh out of it) but WTF. There was a UPS truck blocking the other lane a bit further down and given the choice between hitting the truck vs splattering a cyclist I’m sure of which one a driver would choose. Then they’d call it an “accident” and fine him $500.

I guess I should have calmed down and gotten plate numbers, for whatever good that would have done.


rsprake
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I was in a downhill lane this morning that has a 15mph speed limit all day, and then a school zone at the end of it. I know I was at least traveling the speed limit. Someone raced around me at what must have been 30mph.

Spring is in the air.


brian j
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I was in a downhill lane this morning that has a 15mph speed limit all day, and then a school zone at the end of it. I know I was at least traveling the speed limit. Someone raced around me at what must have been 30mph.

I will say it again: the single biggest thing that could be done to make our streets safer for ALL USERS would be enforce posted speed limits.


netviln
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It is my understanding that only state police can use speed detection devices such as radar and laser, and that local agencies are stuck with vascar (easy to beat in court and highly subjective) or just tailing, etc.

If that is the case, that would be the major reason speeding is not enforced in the city, and to me makes no sense. Perhaps we should contact some state legislators to get this changed.


brian j
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I believe you are correct.

The streets would also be significantly safer if laws around stop signs and traffic signals were enforced.


edmonds59
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I don’t know the law well, but I’ve always been under the impression that a cop could issue a citation with the catch-all “unsafe operation”, without an actual speed measurement. That is, if they wanted to.


brian j
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You mean like this:

§ 23.12. Motor vehicles.

Operation of a motor vehicle in a manner that is reckless or negligent or that creates a nuisance or excessive noise is prohibited.


asobi
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salty mentioned “stay calm, get plate numbers” as a tactic. all this venting could really give rise to something very practical if someone could tell me what the next steps are after getting the motorist’s plate number.

I’ve been involved in situations where a motorist will either cut me off or yell something at me while passing me with about a foot of space. I don’t bike aggressively, and I am usually completely silent when I’m on the road — I assume drivers couldn’t hear me which is usually the case since they have their windows up or music on. So in a case where there’s no damage (luckily) — does anyone bother to follow up on it?


rsprake
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I do when it’s a bus, but usually by the time I get somewhere I can make a report I have worked off all the stress it caused by riding my bike.


Lyle
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The Parking Authority announced that they are going to crack down in order to meet their budget. In 30 minutes in Oakland last year (5th and Robinson) I sat and counted 38 stop sign violations (some with multiple violations at once, actually: failure to stop + driving in a bus lane + unsafe u-turn). If the city could just put someone there with a video camera, and send out tickets in the mail, they could come up with a lot of revenue in a very short time.


rsprake
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They would make a fortune just off of stop sign and failing to yield infractions.


StuInMcCandless
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State radar law explained The statute in question is Title 75 §3368(c)(2).

Unfortunately, the AOL site ref’d in the link has been shut down.


Lyle
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@rsprake: I didn’t actually witness any failure to yield. None of the maneuvers were incredibly dangerous, just pushy (and illegal). And a little more dangerous than failing to feed the parking meter.


Mick
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This just in:

Speeding ‘cushion’ may dwindle due to recession

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-03-30-speeding-cushion_N.htm?

The recession may be claiming a new victim: the 5-10-mph “cushion” police and state troopers across the USA have routinely given motorists exceeding the speed limit.

As cities and states scramble to fill budget gaps with revenue from traffic citations, “not only are the (speeding) tolerances much lower, but the frequency of a warning instead of a ticket is way down,” says James Baxter, president of the National Motorists Association, a Wisconsin-based drivers’ rights group that helps its members fight speeding tickets.

[more at site]

I’m guessing this story is at least partly a publicity stunt by NMA. They seem to be more speeders advocates than anything else.


Lyle
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I think the “cushion” is written into law, at least in some states. That was in response to the federal mandate for 55 mph on highways. “you can make us post signs, but you can’t make us enforce them!” It’s hard to prove cause and effect, but I don’t recall seeing as much speeding on residential streets before the 55mph law and concomitant non-enforcement went into effect.


rsprake
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Lyle, they can come to the intersection outside my office (28th & Liberty) then. I can be standing in the middle of Liberty Ave and cars don’t stop.

We even had a news story run about how dangerous the intersection is and how many accidents have occurred there. The 311 complaint I filed was closed when they re-installed the street light that was knocked over that a previous accident knocked over.


salty
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The “cushion” is indeed written into law (75 PA C.S. § 3368). It’s either 6 or 10 mph depending on how the speed was measured and what the limit is; for city cops (no radar) on city streets (<55mph), it’s probably 10 mph.

I’d be in favor of eliminating the speed limit on limited access highways in exchange for ‘zero tolerance’ (and actual enforcement) on surface streets.


StuInMcCandless
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There’s a bill in Harrisburg about this, but I don’t know its true status, e.g., whether or not a committee chair is sitting on it, etc.

Note: Link is to a Word doc.


Jim
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I have seen many more cyclists blow stop signs and even red lights without even looking for cross traffic than I have seen cars doing things like that. If anyone seems “entitled” it is the bikers in Shadyside… YOUCH! Talk about an “I’m allowed to be here and I don’t care” attitude…


dwillen
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It pisses me off more when I see a bike blow a light or stop sign, because they are giving me and everyone else who does stop a bad rep. I don’t know that I could agree with “more bikes than cars” running these traffic control devices.

Standing at my bus stop this morning (on Greenfield Ave), I saw about 30-40 cars run the stop sign, some without even braking. I saw one bike during that period, who slowed down, looked, and rolled through. For comparison sake, I saw maybe 2-3 cars actually come to a full, complete stop, and that was because another car was in the intersection.

Yea, you see bikes not stopping, but I can you really say you see MORE bikes (compared to cars) doing that? With the sheer number of cars on the road?


spakbros
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If anyone seems “entitled” it is the bikers in Shadyside

ummm, every person in shadyside seems to behave that way from what I’ve seen


Jim
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Oh, I am sure, without hesitation, that more cars coast stop signs that there are even bikes on the rosd, period. but as far as just maintaining speed and not slowing… I gotta go bikes on that one. Save for the “right turn on red” thing, I can not recall the last time I actually saw, in person, a car blow a red light. It happens, yes, but I see bikers go through them a lot.

Maybe there is something in the air around Winchester Thurstn school that mikes bikers crazy, lol. I am HONESTLY surprised there are not car/bike accidents in the surrounding area every day.

Even walking to lunch on Center (I work near Shadyside hospital) I see bikes flying around without a care in the world. It’s tight and dangerous for cars around there and yet some people just don’t seem to care.


salty
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Cyclists who really don’t care end up dead. Drivers who really don’t care might get a dent in their car. Not trying to excuse the behaviour but I would argue that by nature cyclists have to be safer regardless of appearance.


spakbros
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Do you ride a bike?


rsprake
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Oh, I am sure, without hesitation, that more cars coast stop signs that there are even bikes on the rosd, period. but as far as just maintaining speed and not slowing… I gotta go bikes on that one.

Do you ride a bike in the city? Just curious.

The difference in field of view between cars and bikes is huge, add to that slower speeds. So a person riding a bike can see more and can anticipate better because they are traveling at a slower speed for a longer period of time.

Someone in a car who accelerates to 20-25 mph then slows down to 10 and coasts a stop can not see what’s coming because they haven’t given themselves enough time to see it.


dmtroyer
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@jim you could start a “stock complaint on entitled cyclist” thread.


rsprake
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Jim
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I do not ride Downtown… I actually do not even drive Downtown, I avoid Downtown. I am a Brentwood, Carrick, Southside, Oakland, Shadyside type of traveler. (plus non-city riding)

salty – maybe that is why bad riders annoy me so much. I am extra careful and jumpy on the bkie as there is nothing between my skin/bone and the metal/road except for some clothes (for the most part).

Maybe I am a little odd though too. When I walk I try to be carefull too. If I come to an intersection where a car is waiting to turn off a side road, i actually that the 5 extra steps and walk BEHIND the car as opposed to infront of it. Ounce of prevention kind of thing I suppose. Yes, I have the “right of way’ espectially if there is a crosswalk (which the car has usually pulled into) but that doesn’t mean ANYTHING if they hit me. I would still have a broken leg, concussion or whatever; and the knowledge that on paper I had the right of way wouldn’t be much help.


Mick
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When cars “slow down” for stop signs, they slow to the same speed that bikes “maintain” while going through the sign.


Jim
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dmtroyer – I hate entitled people period, lol. It doesn’t matter what they feel entitled about. Whetehr I am walking, biking or driving… I tend to get annoyed at peds, bikers and drivers, lol.


sloaps
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I’d have to agree with Jim on this.

Blowing/coasting/rolling through a stop sign is not following the rules here in PA. And we cant use the Idaho stop to justify the practice, because we’re not in Idaho. Perhaps the supporting data for the Idaho stop can be used in an attempt to repeal or amend the laws in PA, but it cant be used to justify breaking our current laws.

It’s an act of civil disobedience that makes it difficult for us mannerly types share the road with you’inz.

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