BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

i just finished leading a bike tour from DC to pittsburgh last night... its a great ride... I prefer the GAP to the C&O, I'd recommend 28c or larger tires, bring stuff to change a flat, patch kit... a multitool, what are you questioning bringing?

I would like to get in on a ride on this trail, even just to Ohiopyle? How long does the full ride take on average? I would need some new tires for sure and some bags,helmet etc.

Well, I'm planning to buy new tires. I have 25's on now. Also, I assume I'll need to get a rack and panniers (sp), any recommendations on these? I have a Bianchi cross bike D2 Axis. Thanks.

I would like to try this too. I really want to go on a long unsupported ride. I've heard from many sources that the Ortlieb Roll-top panniers are the best. Jane and I just ordered some for our tandem, I'm thinking we will be pleased.

Here's my 2010 trip report, my 2006 trip report, and my 2004 trip report.

It's a great ride, the GAP is nicer than the C&O. There's more people on the trail, so towns are more familiar with cyclists. I'd say 32 or wider tires, new tubes, rain gear, motrin - but that's all in my trip reports.

You don't have to do it all the first time. You could ride Connellsville to Meyersdale, stay overnight, and return the next day as an Intro Ride.

Cheers, Vannevar

if you let me know your budget and max/min miles per day i'll lay out a schedule for you... ortlieb stuff is great, i highly recommend it... if you are going solo unsupported I'd think about a bob trailer (or if you're going on tandem), if you're going with a group its probably not necessary. it really just depends on what you want to bring. you'll want to get 28+ tires, the bigger you go the more comfy the ride.

since i just helped a family of four do this i have everything fresh in my mind and can plan everything real quick.

A few things I'd recommend:

- At least three bottles, more if it's hot

- A couple spare tubes, levers, pump and patch kit. A boot or spare tire isn't a bad idea either, but a boot can be improvised easily.

- Allen keys / multitool, possibly an adjustable wrench too

- Chain tool

- A spoke wrench and a FiberFix spoke

- Chain lube and a rag

- Sandals and some street clothes

- One extra set of riding clothes

- Some amount of rain gear (depends on the temp and forecast)

- A small first aid kit

- Cash for meals and snacks

Some of those things you hopefully won't need, but it's nice to have, especially given parts of the trail are a long way from the nearest bike shop.

You can get away with thin tires, but wider tires are definitely the way to go. Semi-slick 32-35mm are good, even bigger is better if it's likely to rain.

This should all fit pretty easily in a pair of rear panniers. A handlebar bag is nice too for small things like a camera.

I use a Camelback when riding the trail all day. Sometimes it's a long stretch between trailheads (eg, ~20 miles from Connellsville to Ohiopyle). I also sweat like a pig.

Similarly, snacks, both protein and sugar.

camelbacks just look so uncomfortable to me. i've gone a few hundred miles with a backpack on, and it really sucked. how are those things comfortable?

You can barely tell they're there..Being so skinny and all.Filled mine is i think a 50oz? And it weighs maybe 3-4 lbs?

I've got a number of my GAP trail reports at http://www.tasigh.org/gps/bikeblog.html

Yeah, a Camelback is not like a fully-loaded backpack. It's lighter (and gets lighter as you go along, natch'). It's also a lot skinnier, so you have a smaller "sweaty spot". Combine it with a decent moisture-wicking shirt and it's a great companion.

I'm planning/hoping to do the trail all the way to Washington this summer... and maybe round trip. I'll be on a hybrid with 700x28 tires, probably with a two-wheeled trailer, uh, trailing behind with camping equipment and other stuff.

I like johnwheffner's list. Murphy's Law would, of course, dictate that any tool you bring with you is not necessary, while any that you leave behind will be exactly what is needed to make a major repair in the middle of nowhere.

Doing errands around town, I always use a backpack or over-the-shoulder bag, and when I go "out for a ride" I have an off-brand Camelbak bag that I wear. I don't find it heavy at all, and look forward to using it as my primary water source while on the road.

I did the GAP and most of the C&O a month ago and can say that for the I had absolutely no problem just having two bottles on hand. There are pumps or municipal water outlets every so often that if you fill up every time you see one I'd find it hard to believe that you'd be able to empty your bottles each time. There are a few stretches of 15-20 miles without water, but once you're on the C&O it's very plentiful. Enough that I was only filling one and half each time I stopped, which wasn't even at each pump that was located every 5-8 miles.

I did it on 28s with four panniers. I'd suggest bigger tires—if it had rained hard I think I'd have been up shit creek on the C&O. For the GAP alone, 28 is plenty for sure.

Otherwise, stuff to fix your bike, stuff in case it gets colder and wetter than you think it will, and stuff to eat that you'll actually want to eat. Maybe a book depending on your pace. Highly recommended, the GAP is a gem.

beware that many of the hand pumps on the C&O are technically non-potable water... jussayin.

Actually, I have similar questions... but not about gear. More about preparation.

Our honeymoon plans fell through, so I'm trying to figure out the details of a GAP ride instead (September). Things that have me concerned 1) how much riding should the fiance do to prepare (he is not trying to eliminate his car like I am), and 2) how different are the bike laws in VA? (they live only 13 miles off the C&O, which isn't bad, but I don't know those 13 miles like I know PGH roads)

Can I do this on my crate-bike? It sounds like a yes, especially if his bike has some form of hauling ability (have yet to build him a new one to replace the walmart special he's finally ready to let go of).

as far as water goes, I used 2 water bottles along the C&O and GAP and was fine. You could go as far as taking along a good small water purifier if so inclined. I had one, never used it.

I had no mechanicals, took a multi-tool, extra tire, extra tube, patch kit, fiberspoke, lube, stein cassette remover...I think that's it.

ieverhart ... probably with a two-wheeled trailer ...

Two wheeled trailer?

NOOOOOOOO...

The C&O is like one of those dirt roads with separate trails for each tire. Long grass and weeds on the sides and in the middle.

That could be your very own little patch of personal hell, pulling grass and poison ivy out of your hubs every mile or so.

+1 one the idea that 28's are a little small. I did it once on 35's and once on 38's. 38's are better.

@ejwme - Having the longest training ride be at least 25% longer than you would do for your daily average is good. The trip is about 335 miles each way.

For people that are untrained, 30 miles a day would be a long ride, depending.

I'd take Maryland and VA maps- if it rains, the roads are better than soggy, century-old mule shit.

There is a a paved trail, Washington and Old Dominion, from Leesburg VA into DC.

Of the people that post here regularly, the time it would take to do the whole Pgh-DC trip varies between 2 days, for the crushers of commonwealths or double century guys, to 2 weeks.

ejwme i did DC to pittsburgh with a 10 and 13 yo who rarely bike and they were fine for about 40 miles a day, taking breaks often... i think an unexperienced adult of average athleticism could finish in 8 days with absolutely no problem.

i did this on a single speed on 28s and actually recommend it to a geared bike for the C&O, lots of folks were having trouble with the grime. you can do this trail on any bike with 28c tires or bigger (the bigger the better), the trail is so so flat and you never have to do more than a 20 mile day if you don't want to.

ask your friends in VA, they probably know way better than we do how bike friendly the roads are. have them drive it and see if they think its safe, in my experience driving the roads around the C&O most the surrounding roads are very pleasant. of course there are some that are not.

very cool - thank you guys for the advice! I think I'll scale back my 60mi/day ambitions and scale up the training, for *both* of us

@ mark - i think an unexperienced adult of average athleticism could finish in 8 days with absolutely no problem.

That averages 42 miles a day. I said 30 per day was a long way.

I'm not trying to argue here at all. Marks right. I'm right, too. And that doesn't even begin to tell the story.

A guy I know did Pgh-Cumberland in a week and the next year Cumberland to DC in a week, less than 30 miles a day. He says that more is somehow wrong. "Not what you want to do." Even with training.

I ride maybe 25 miles per week to get around. My first long trip, I trained haphazardly for 3 or 4 weeks. I rode 45 miles for my longest workout.

I averaged 45 miles per day on the trip. Even though my plan was for 66 miles per day.

I had uncomfortable progressive exhaustion. I went 72 miles one day, then the next day, slept on picnic table, crushed after 28 miles.

Had I not trained at all and I still wanted to be comforable? Even with my regular 25 miles per week? Then, maybe 25 miles per day.

I'm in my 50's and geezerhood makes a difference. I've never been athletic. My lifetime record for ANY kind of race is over 50% DFL.

It is SUCH a blessing that enjoy the way athletes' back ends look. ; )

Another guy tells me his first bike trip was on a whim, he wasn't a regular biker. He set the pace for a 5-day, 500-mile trip by doing a century. That left him sore, but he still managed 4 more centuries in the next 4 days. Early 20's/late teens at the time of the trip.

I'm guessing "comfortable" would not be a descriptor for his ride. (I'd bet cash his "500 miles" was closer to 400, but still...)

So whats the range of comfortable distances for an inexperienced, but reasonably fit, rider on a week-long trip? Maybe between 15 and 65 miles a day.

Doesn't help much does it?

I say go out and exhaust yourself about a week before before going on a trip. Plan a daily distance considerably less than the one-day distance that wiped you out.

Of course, others here will disagree.

My 2 cents:

My roommate, fiance, and I just completed what turned out to be a 100k ride on the Montour trail and the GAP this weekend. We found that the Montour Trail as well as the "Steel Valley Route" took significantly longer than expected because of the "Share the Road" portions. When we do it again, we will drive to the McKeesport GAP trailhead, stop at the delicious McKees Cafe, and go from there, possibly to Maryland. Anyway, that would be my suggestion.

O yeah, the actual question: We took a tent, three water bottles and a camelback, adjustable wrenches, lube, patch kit and tire boot, spare tubes for everyone, and allen keys. That we didnt need anything else makes us lucky, i know.

42 miles a day as we did it on my trip:

-wake up, eat

-bike approx 3 hours, stopping as needed, averaging 8 mph (about 24 miles)

-take a two hour lunch break, see stuff, have fun

-bike two hours, stopping as needed, averaging 8 mph (about 16 miles)

-take a one hour break, snack!

-bike to destination for day (appox 10 miles, depending on where you camp)

averaging 8 mph on flat trails without traffic is not really challenging for anyone, as long as you rest your butt, have proper bike fit, and eat drink and sleep appropriately you will be fine. even breaking things up into 3 chunks of 2 hours each with 3 hour breaks in the middle you still get enough daylight in summer and tons of rest.

space out your riding time, see what the trail has to offer, stop every chance you get.

i would actually start at the Boston trailhead if anyone's driving to mckeesport, the trail between the two is horrible.

raphael When we do it again, we will drive to the McKeesport GAP

What is this "drive" you speak of? Why would a person ever do such a thing on a bike trip?

Also, from Mckeesport, on the south side of the Yough, there is a trail that (after half a mile or so of roads) is much nicer than the Mckeesport- Boston side.

I use a Camelbak HAWG with 100 oz. of a 50/50 Gatorade and water mix. A couple of Powerbars, two tubes, a pump, levers, tools, a knife, a flashlight, a lighter, a change of socks, an ultralight t-shirt change, a microfiber towel, a camp hammock and a small tarp. Oh yeah, I take my ID and cash, too. All that fits in the backpack if you do it right. I'm thinking a Hennessy hammock will save space and weight by combining the tarp and hammock, but I didn't have the funds for one before I went on the trail.

"Our honeymoon plans fell through"

Not to get into TMI territory but one year my husband and I did a ride to Ohiopyle for our anniversary. He was not used to that much time in the saddle. Lets just say it wasn't very romantic, even though we had a great time.

- sarah_q - yeah, after doing some math in my head about training distance ramp up, time till the wedding, and training time available, we're gonna do this next year, if we don't go run around Peru or Wyoming instead. There are too many places to go, and none of them in early September

With Mick's advice above strongly against taking my two-wheeled trailer, I figured I'd at least ask if anyone would loan me a single-wheel trailer for the duration of the trip, which I'd take sometime in the next month. If you need to use a trailer on a semi-regular basis, I'd be glad to swap it for my double-wheeler for the trip, and/or pay you a nominal fee for the privilege.

That trailer will kick your ass between confluence and meyersdale, and you'll probably leave it along side the trail on the return through Maryland and into Pennsylvania.

Clothes will weigh you down the most on long trips. And there are more places than you need along the GAP for food and drink.

I did the GAP with a friend eariler in the week. Took too much food and tools. Though my 3L bladder of water was just the right size. I need lots of water for some reason. Got a tube extension from REI which allowed me to bungee the bladder to my rack and drink alot without stopping.

When were you planning on making the trip? Late August?

I was able to pack more than I needed into four smallish panniers when I did it. I strapped some stuff to the top of my rack too, and rode with a flatbed CETMA front rack to make it all easier. But four panniers and bungee or two was plenty.

I just got back from doing the GAP + C&O. I left on the 5th. Yowza, it was warm.

So, some possibly-useful notes: I used a Camelback, and in that heat, I was really glad to have it, especially on day 3, which was Rockwood -> Cumberland. It was over 100 degrees that day, and there's no shade on that side of the mountain. On day 1, I made the mistake of drinking plain water. I kept hydrated, but by the end of the day I was a bit nauseous and I was crampy that night. After that, I added some salt, and everything was fine. I used the Camelback "Elixir" tablets. They recommend 4 tablets for every 100oz fill, but that was too much for me. I used 3.

Tire-wise, I did it on 700x28s. No problems at all. For the first couple of days on the C&O trail, it was very dry for me; that may or may not have mattered. I stopped for a couple days in WV to do some sightseeing, and it ended up raining hard the night before my last day of riding. Still no problems with the tires, but I can't say one way or the other if I'dve been unhappy if I rode in mud the whole way.

Tool-wise, I of course had a spare tube and pump, which came in handy. Unfortunately, that same incident broke two spokes. Fortunately, that was the rear wheel, and it was just past the Paw Paw tunnel, so I just unhooked the rear brakes and kept going on my not-so-true wheel, because I was 30 miles from my planned stop for the night (Hancock). There's an awesome bike shop in Hancock - C&O bikes. When I walked in with my wheel, the owner immediately racked it up, replaced the spokes, and trued it.

I also wished I'd taken a chain tool. I passed one guy on the trail with a broken rear derailleur. He didn't have one, either. If he did, or I did, we could've shortened up the chain and rigged it as a single-speed, so he could at least keep riding.

I always have one of those swiss-army looking tools with a bunch of hex wrenches and a #2 phillips, and I got a lot of use out of that.

Clothing-wise, I had a spare shirt and pair of shorts, so I could rinse my clothes at night, let them partially dry, then still have dry clothes in the morning. When I stopped for lunch, I pulled out the damp clothes and they'd finish drying in the searing noon sun. From Cumberland on, I had a couple of fresh changes, because my wife joined me via truck for the sightseeing.

I strapped a single-person backpacking tent along with an emergency blanket onto my bike so I'd be sure to have a place to sleep, but I ended up not needing it, because there were plenty of places to stay on the way that weren't booked up.

Uh, one other useful tip. If you take your bike on White's Ferry to/from Leesburg, don't forget that you go down a short, steep ramp onto the ferry. There is a similar short, steep ramp up on the other side. Don't be like me. Downshift on your way onto the ferry. There were a couple of cyclists waiting on the other side, and when I crested the top, they commented that they were pretty sure I wasn't going to make it. For once, being heavy came in handy- I just leaned in and forced it up.

Random other info that may or may not help: bike is a full suspension mountain bike. I was pleased with that on that on the C&O trail. No panniers, but I have a trunk, and I used a cargo net to suspend the tent beneath it, and a strap to hang some sandals off the side. (I ride clipless, but bike shoes are no fun to go walking around in.)

On the GAP, you'll hit towns where you can get supplies pretty regularly. On the C&O trail, not so much, and when you do, you're usually hitting a trailhead that's a couple of miles from the town. Pack snacks appropriately, based on that.

Distance-wise, I did Duquesne->Cumberland in 3 days, than Hancock in another day, and had no problems. After that, my distances got shorter because I was sightseeing, so I was only riding for a few hours per day. That probably also helped with the boredom factor on the C&O trail.

If you're looking for mile marker zero in DC, it's hard to find, but I swear it exists. If you get to the apparant end of the trail, with Thompson's marina on your left and the sundial looking thing to your right, you're almost there. Turn left, cut through Thompson's, and you'll find the tidelock and the marker on the far side, next to the world's smallest bridge.

Nice, thank you for the info. White's Ferry is actually about two from my cousins' house (whose last name is also White, coincidence only). It's my preferred way to cross that river by car, and remembering it, that would be an awesome bike ride. I thought I'd have 12 miles of crazy VA off trail traffic - I guess not

@JZ - awesome synopsis. Thanks.

Lolly was encouraging me to ask here if anyone had a tent, sleeping bag and/or panniers I could also borrow for the trip, for about two weeks. I have a trailer (thanks Mick!) but my tent and sleeping bag are a little bigger than I need--bulkier and heavier than I really want to haul for 335 miles.

when does this start? if i'm not using mine you can use them, I will be doing the GAP/CO twice between now and sept though so it might be iffy. i would ditch the sleeping bag for a light blanket and a sleeping mat thought, it will be about the same weight/space and much more comfortable.

Many thanks to mattre and Mick for loaned items! I returned on my one-way trip from DC on Friday (just before the party!) and have written up an account with pictures at my blog:

http://ianev.blogspot.com/2010/08/trail-trial.html

More pictures are available at this Facebook album and my Google/Picasa page (with geo-tags):

http://www.facebook.com/album.php?aid=2090261&id=3000767&saved

http://picasaweb.google.com/ian.everhart/DCToPittsburghBikeTrail#

From a more technical/recommendation perspective, I took a 2-man tent and a BOB trailer, with a rack and single pannier, all of which I over-stuffed. I was on a fairly new Trek hybrid, with a 700x32 on the front and 700x28 on the back. I had a $25 omni-tool from REI which, it seems, has everything but a chain whip. Also a backup allen key set, two Leathermen, three extra tubes, a mini-pump, and two extra sets of brake pads. Naturally, I didn't need any of it. My only mechanical failure was a broken spoke around Boston, and I figured I was close enough to home I'd just ride on it. I had a Camelbak which I was very glad to have. I had two different riding outfits, one for days 1-3 and the other I used on days 4 and 5.

I camped three nights at C&O Miles 26, 102, and 154, and then overnighted at Frostburg and Connellsville. The last two days felt really long. I think I could only do those long days knowing that I was nearing the end of the trip--that would have been no fun on a continuous basis. I left downtown DC at 5:00 p.m. on Sunday and arrived in Pittsburgh around 7 p.m. on Friday night. I got reeeeeeeeally lucky with the weather--about a grand total of 25 minutes in the rain. Yeah it was kind of hot, but riding a bike all day in August, I certainly wasn't expecting to keep too cool.

I went alone, which has its obvious drawbacks, but for me worked out well on a number of fronts. First, I'm not sure anyone else would have picked my specific dates to go. I decided when I was tired and when I wanted to go on. Between 4 and 8 p.m. most nights this was pretty key because sometimes I think I was stopping every mile or two for a rest, and I don't think I would have been very understanding with a travel buddy whose rest stop needs weren't synchronized with mine.

Anyway--I'm really glad I did it. I've been telling myself I'd do this since 2008, and now I've done it. Now, I'm not sure how I feel about what's next: either "I never have to do it again" or I have to escalate!

Better places to read & discuss the GAP and the C&O Canal Towpath are these yahoo newsgroups:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Great_Allegheny_Passage/

(Pittsburgh to Cumberland MD)

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/coTowpath/

(Cumberland to Washington DC)

Regarding tire widths, I find that 38mm hybrid (not knobby) tires are good for trail riding. Here's a link to a guide with advice on tire width and pressure as a function of riding surface and weight:

http://www.rivbike.com/article/components/pick_a_tire_chart

Hi Mike, I just finished the entire 150 from Cumberland, MD to the Point.  VERY nice trail, smooth.  Surface varies from compact gravel to sandy gravel to macadam. - No issues with the trail at this time.   I would think your normal essentials would be just fine.  Water, snacks / protein bars, spare tube, patch kit, frame pump, a light for the tunnels and a camera (beautiful scenery), bike lock, rain gear (just in-case).  Almost every town/village has a bike shop and a store to re-supply water and snacks as well as bed & breakfasts to stay (make a reservation). Cumberland to the Divide is uphill.  Not impossible, but it'll give your legs a workout.  From the top for a good 50+ miles is a gradual downhill slope.  In McKeesport, you ride into a more urban, recreational trail with uphill and downhill grades, a far different ride than what you were just on. Awesome weekend ride...I will do it again!

I just rode this as well, Pittsburgh to Cumberland (took the Amtrak back with my bike). Solo/unsupported bike camping ride. 50 miles per day: Pittsburgh -> Roundbottom Campground -> Rockport (Husky Haven Campground) -> Cumberland. I started out with a Camelbak, but strapped it to my rear panniers on the morning of Day 2. Such a relief. And I bike locally (under 10 miles usually) with it all the time, year round. The post above about strapping a water bladder to the rear rack and getting a long tube — that's exactly what I am going to do for my next bike camping trip. But at the least have a few water bottles, one or two in a place you can reach while riding. I brought all my food, camping gear and clothing (including rain gear and thermals) in two rear panniers. I had repair tools, spare bike tubes and such in the Camelbak backpack. As others have mentioned, there are plenty of places along the way to get supplies and repairs, but there can be long stretches of trail between them at times. At minimum bring 2-3 spare tubes. Bring sunscreen, as there are long stretches of open trail where the sun will beat down on you. Definitely wear padded bike shorts. I normally do not need/use them, but was glad I brought them. Many of the visitor centers right on the trail had free wifi access, which was really helpful. Cell signals were spotty at best throughout.

I think for C&O portion, panniers would be a hindrance because of the mud and roots on the trail. Heavy-laden panniers tend to unbalance the bike more on muddy and bumpy trails, as I learned during my trip on GAP last year. I'm planning to distribute my luggage to the front of the bike and under the saddle more, like what adventure bike riders are doing nowadays. Here's a good resource for adventure bike setup and tips: http://www.bikepacking.com/ My bike setup for the GAP trip last year The setup I'm trying to emulate

MLeibowi - depending on how soon you're leaving, you might want to check my blog at this address, for a very recent (last week actually) "riding the GAP" story. http://tucorides.blogspot.ca/ I just got back to Canada yesterday, and just got "day one" up today. It'll take me a few more days to write up the following days of my travels. I did Pittsburgh to Cumberland in 3 days, hauling a cargo trailer, and then Cumberland back up to Pittsburgh in another three days... for a six day trip. I've seen some people mentioning tire width - so I'll just quickly note that the GAP trail is surprisingly good. I was often - almost the entire time - thinking "wow, I could be running 23mm tires on this trail!". So... you could run 23's most of the time... but you wouldn't want to (your goal isn't to be racing along this trail). I ran 32mm, and that was more than enough. A 28mm 'cross tire would be fine actually.

People have trouble on the GAP after rain; it's been raining a lot lately. After a while the limestone turns into something like cement. So you're better off with wider tires.

After riding the GAP (on a hybrid bike), similar to Gordon I too realized that I think I want to lean towards a bikepacking bag setup rather than touring/panniers. Probably a mix of the two: frame pack and fork cages, existing panniers on the rear. Maybe upgrade to a handlebar roll at some point. Mostly because after riding the GAP I realized I'd probably do more bikepacking/bike camping rather than touring, and would rather invest in multi-use gear. The bikepacking bags and location seem ideal for weight distribution and ground clearance. The latter isn't an issue on the GAP. As Gordon mentioned, the C&O might be a different story. And after reading up on some frame pack options, I noticed many of them offer a hydration port so you can stash your hydration bladder in the frame pack, and have that heavy bag of water in a better spot on the bike. So that's what I am going to go with instead of my idea to strap it to the back rack (thanks Gordon!). A frame pack seems ideal for any bike regardless of what sort of setup you plan to go with (panniers or bikepacking packs).  

Ear plugs. The official GAP TrailGuide mentions earplugs, and I would second the recommendation. A lot of the campsites along the GAP are right beside railroad tracks that hum all night long with trains blowing by. Rockwood and West Newton in particular stand out as being noisy "train" towns. Take earplugs if you're tent camping!  

Yes great call on earplugs, especially for tent campers. I bring multiple pairs on all trips (and nearly always need to employ them) so I totally forgot how essential they were on this one. Roundbottom primitive campground (near West Newton) and the superb Husky Haven campground (in Rockwood) both parallel an active train track just over the river.