THIS is good paint

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Lyle
Participant
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erok
Keymaster
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i imagine that it’s there because the right lane is a right turning lane, so it helps cyclists get through the intersection in the center lane that was too narrow for an actual bike lane. i do like that. it’s like a sharrow on steroids. i really like sharrows, and can’t wait to see them pop up more and more. they did show some cyclists passing by, but they weren’t in the lane, they were to the right of it.

also, did you catch that utah has a 3 foot passing law?


rsprake
Participant
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Saw this today, same deal.

Would love to see that on Penn and Liberty Ave. Maybe even some of the busier two lane roads.


erok
Keymaster
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i could see something like this helping out on fifth ave around oakland

especially at that terribly designed intersection with the right turn lane at darragh

also, through the cattle chute near the new slip ramp to the blvd on fifth


caitlin
Participant
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“also, through the cattle chute near the new slip ramp to the blvd on fifth”

haha. cattle chute.


Andrew
Participant
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I think this would be good on penn ave.

I think it is dumb that they only put the green stripe on ONE block in salt lake city in the original post. No wonder the news didn’t see anyone using it.


Lyle
Participant
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I do like the sharrows but only if they’re not painted in the door zone. There’s a good thread about the sharrows in Bellevue here:

http://www.cascade.org/Community/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=13&threadid=13774

It’s already hard enough teaching novice cyclists how to stay out of the door zone. I can’t imagine how hard it’s going to be when the entire door zone is painted friendly, inviting, green. Or how much I’m going to be hassled by motorists if I’m not in it.

I’d rather see the sharrows painted smack in the middle of the through lane.


Lyle
Participant
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Re: rsprake’s link. I read the comments, and I thought a couple of the negative comments are worth considering. The big one I saw was “how are motorists supposed to know what is a bike lane (illegal to drive in) and what is a shared lane, when the visual cues are so similar?” (and, I might add, a lot newer than whenever the nearest retiree took his last driver’s test).

Someone suggested “Perhaps a car and a bike image could have been displayed in the lane? “

I think that might be good. The bad/good thing about road signs and lane markings is that they have to go through a long process of evaluation and delay before they can be introduced, so you don’t have random things in different cities.


erok
Keymaster
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“how are motorists supposed to know what is a bike lane (illegal to drive in) and what is a shared lane, when the visual cues are so similar?”

that was my first reaction upon seeing them

he bad/good thing about road signs and lane markings is that they have to go through a long process of evaluation and delay before they can be introduced, so you don’t have random things in different cities.

very true. that’s probably why it’s only one block. they probably had to get approval from the FHWA before putting that in like we had to get for the sharrows on liberty ave. there’s also probably going to be a follow up with the city to see how they worked.

Or how much I’m going to be hassled by motorists if I’m not in it.

has this ever actually happened to anyone? i hear that a lot as an argument against bike lanes/infrastructure. i’ve heard people say that criticizing trails, and i’ve yet to have someone tell me to “get on the trail”

i know we don’t have many bike lanes here, but riding in other cities with many more, ive never heard that either.


Lyle
Participant
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I don’t relish the “bad motorist” stories, but, yes, it has happened to me. Not recently, so maybe the culture has changed, but I definitely have been riding less than I was when that happened, so it’s hard to draw conclusions.

I also got “SHARE THE ROAD!!” one of the few times I rode on Penn Avenue by The Factory. Which is at least partly why I oppose ambiguous messages.

I prefer “Bicyclists Use Full Lane”, or “Bicyclists May Use Full Lane”, whichever is the to-be-legal phrase.


erok
Keymaster
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yeah, i can’t stand the Share the Road signs.

this seems to come up frequently in the bikey world. i think a simple “SHARED ROAD” would be better.


nick
Participant
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<I>Or how much I’m going to be hassled by motorists if I’m not in it.

has this ever actually happened to anyone? i hear that a lot as an argument against bike lanes/infrastructure. i’ve heard people say that criticizing trails, and i’ve yet to have someone tell me to “get on the trail”</I>

this happens to me a lot when ever i’m biking on the road near the youghiogeheny trail. one person threatened to kill me. i’ve had this experience in other states too, but only ever in “rural” areas, never in cities.

this is part of the reason i have mixed feelings regarding bike trails. they certainly have their place, but oftentimes i think they narrow peoples thinking planners, cyclists and motorists included. like why do they have to build a trail through sandcastle? why not just bike on the existing road and cut a bike sized hole in the fence?

<I>I also got “SHARE THE ROAD!!” one of the few times I rode on Penn Avenue by The Factory. Which is at least partly why I oppose ambiguous messages.</I>

once going down penn ave someone shouted to me “its not share the road here!”. i agree there definitely are better ways to sign our roads.


Nick D
Participant
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I loved the shared lanes in Salt Lake City. Cycling in Salt Lake is a lot different than Pittsburgh.


erok
Keymaster
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like why do they have to build a trail through sandcastle? why not just bike on the existing road and cut a bike sized hole in the fence?

837?

oh, and this uses the “em” html tag for italics


Lyle
Participant
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This is bad paint.

http://i31.tinypic.com/ay63ci.jpg

sure looks purty, though.


erok
Keymaster
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ha ha. i’ve seen that before. some think it’s photoshopped


Lyle
Participant
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Clearly a prank in any case.


erok
Keymaster
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Lyle
Participant
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An acquaintance of mine commented elsewhere about his experiences with sharrows in San Francisco. I thought he made an interesting point, so I’m copying him (Bert Hill) below:

Hill: The primary benefit of a sharrow is in a location where it may not be intuitive at first

sight, like a roadway that narrows around a curve, for example. Placing sharrows only on designated bikeways can lead some motorists to believe that bikes belong only on those roads. I would urge using them anywhere cyclists

could likely be endangered by a roadway design that compromises their safety.


erok
Keymaster
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i found as a visitor in SF that they were really useful for finding my way around. for instance, i knew which direction i needed to go, so i would ride until i saw a street with them, then take it. it usually got me where i needed to go.

can lead some motorists to believe that bikes belong only on those roads.

i’ve never lived there, but i find that kinda hard to believe. if so, it’s the exception. there are bikes everywhere. on bike to work day, there are more bikes than cars on Market St. it’s such an entrenched part of sf street life. also, pretty much every bikeable street has them. the streets without sharrows, like Oak St for instance (which alot of people use because it’s fast and direct), completely suck to ride on. i can’t even think of a street here that sucks that hard. the closest comparison i can think of is riding on Penn Ave thru point breeze instead of Reynolds, Thomas, or Hamilton. But even Penn Ave felt safe compared to Oak.


dwillen
Participant
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some nice sharrows here: http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-outthere26-2010jan26,0,3205517.story

There are a few choice quotes in the article too.


rsprake
Participant
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Ha ha, I love this one,

“We just don’t understand” the purpose, said driver Anne Long, an insurance agent who lives blocks from 2nd Street. “Are we supposed to pull over and go around them? I just stay behind them and go really slow until there’s an opening in the other lane.”


alankhg
Participant
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Once when I was biking down the Mon Valley some jagbag started honking and yelling at me for riding on the road instead of the creepy broken-up alley the trail was routed along.


dwillen
Participant
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rsprake, I laughed out loud when I read that one.


Lyle
Participant
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@rsprake: perfect!


salty
Participant
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that was my favorite too… how about “leave your car at home and ride a bike!”

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