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Tour de France

What a joke today was - I think the organizers were doped!
marko82
2013-06-29 10:28:45
Should I ask, what happened? I missed the end of the stage. Or should I just catch a re-broadcast?
edmonds59
2013-06-29 13:34:35
Better watch it. Organizers are shitheads. They moved away from TT but completely screwed last 6 km. Watch for some turns and concrete barriers and helmets were flying in millimeter of it. But main fiasco -- better watch it.
mikhail
2013-06-29 15:11:31
On a side note I think organizers of big three (Giro de Italia, Tour de Ftrance, Vuelta) care too much about money and nothing else. This is Giro de Italia tweets in Russian but pictures tells you story without words.
mikhail
2013-06-29 16:12:22
Can you believe I'm in yellow?
marvelousm3
2013-06-29 16:14:09
Yes 'cause you are the leader.
edmonds59
2013-06-29 21:28:18
This was a day designed to give Cavendish the yellow jersey for a day, paying homage to the Brits and celebrating somebody, anybody other than Lance Armstrong to set their 100th anniversary off on a good footing. ooops. Armstrong gave an interview, the French press chose their interpretation and translation of it, and the news before the start was "doping is needed to win, and I'm the all-time-champeeeyon". Then the officials mangled the bus-vs-barrier, the Kabuki finish didn't happen, and a simple flat stage left major injuries. Karma. OTOH, chapeau Mr. Marv., alle! alle!
vannever
2013-06-29 21:56:10
i blame these guys for today's mayhem:
cburch
2013-06-29 22:02:33
Bob Roll said something interesting, he said in the 90's and 2000's about 90% of the riders were suspected for doping, but now 90% are riding clean. Was it really that bad?
marvelousm3
2013-06-29 22:24:02
Yes, because Lance Armstrong snuck into other teams' rooms at night and surreptitiously injected the riders with stuff. Sometimes he spiked the punch with it, or put it in the meat. He was like a modern day merry prankster.
salty
2013-06-30 00:02:10
do people really think 90% are clean? (sincere question)
sarah_q
2013-06-30 07:02:56
I noticed lots of familiar names in cycling that did extraordinary things in the past are struggling to even keep up now. While others didn't even make the TDF this year.
marvelousm3
2013-06-30 07:59:59
I used to love watching the TdF! LOVE! Since the f'n USADA's idiot went after Lance and decided upon himself that he didn't want any winners of those years, I would like to tell the Tour to F OFF. I don't even know who is in it this year. If the entire field was cheating and I do feel they were back in the day, I think they needed to move forward. In other words, NEVER go backwards and fry a field like that. Let me give an example that might make some sense. Obviously a TON of football players would stacking roids in the 70's and 80's and heck people were even dying from it! Yes, DYING! Did they say, hey we are taking those Super Bowl Rings from you and there was NO champion? F NO! They were too smart and also didn't want cities to go crazy. What did they do? Let that go and LOOK FORWARD. Test more. Know how to test. Did you see Jan U going crazy and saying, those are my wins when I came in second? Nope. He said clearly, "I am happy with my second place finishes". Has any rider claimed those wins? NOPE! Why? Come on! There is no TdF. I won't watch it anymore. F that a-hole that took all those memories from me watching Lance and Jan go at it. I was actually cheering for Jan because he ate pizza and drank beer, but those Tours now don't exist. Not to mention that MILLIONS of people that got inspiration from Lance having cancer and winning tours. I don't care if Lance is a total a-hole. People with cancer or going through treatment is WAY bigger than frying Lance. F the Tour and the USADA!
gg
2013-06-30 13:56:39
Watching people ride road bikes for 100 miles is for the most boring thing ever. Just tune into the sprints at the end.
stefb
2013-06-30 14:27:51
if they want it to be more exciting, they should stop closing the roads.
pbeaver
2013-06-30 20:45:55
wrong. if they want it to be more exciting, they will test everyone, kick out all of the dopers (if detected.. i guess that is part of the problem), make them all ride old school fixed gear bicycles (no carbon) with the option of flipping the rear wheel for a different gear. no radios, no support staff, no motorized vehicles except the ones with the cameras. no high tech suits or aero this or that. no shaving.
stefb
2013-06-30 21:19:43
You could make the case that the radios (and/or the radio-motos with chalkboards) were part of the problem in Stage One.
vannever
2013-06-30 22:32:38
I personally loved the drama of stage 1 with the bus. It was exciting.
italianblend
2013-07-03 14:50:14
What is up with Peter Sagan? It has looked like his lead outs have been horrible and he hasn't really competed at stage ends. I know he's leading the green, but he really isn't as dominant as last year.
italianblend
2013-07-04 19:43:13
Marcel takes stage 10! I'm on a roll.
marvelousm3
2013-07-09 13:34:10
90% is probable. The other 10% was probably rolling. Superstars from the 80's that retired, and new people who came up and got spit out. USADA and tour organizers are two different associations. To not watch the tour because of what usada did is weird. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AICA_ribonucleotide Aicar is the new epo. Still cant test for blood manipulation. People are still microdosing EPO (DELUCA!!!!!!!!!!!) There are people in their 40's who have been around forever that havegone on record saying that they have never seen doping. Still in the tour (jens). Quintana made 5000 euro going over that climb first. This is more than the average household income in Colombia. Would you blame him if he tested positive?
steevo
2013-07-09 13:38:37
steevo wrote:Quintana made 5000 euro going over that climb first.
That's interesting. I haven't followed very closely this year, but I was watching during that climb, and the commentators never mentioned anything about money as a possible motivation for his push. I feel like there are a lot of moments like this in the Tour that are lost on me.
willb
2013-07-09 13:57:51
@WillB - I recall from the NBCSN broadcast that they mentioned the $5K bonus for that climb... although I have to say I don't recall ever hearing of that type of bonus before. I've only ever heard of "points" for climbs, etc. Does anyone know, is this sort of cash bonus a new thing?
atleastmykidsloveme
2013-07-09 15:20:51
Can someone answer me this: is there any motivation for any of the sprinters to really do a great time on the time trial? If their main goal is the green jersey or stage wins, shouldn't they just take it easy on a time trial? It won't hurt their goals and will save energy for tomorrow.
italianblend
2013-07-10 09:46:46
This is a daily "blog" of the race including tracking of the riders (for those unable to get a better feed). This is for today, you will need to go to the main page for the link tomorrow. http://uk.eurosport.yahoo.com/cycling/livematch/570465.html This actually shows the speed of the race. I wish they would show speed and grade of the road on TV. Sometimes the speeds are hard to put into perspective.
sew
2013-07-10 09:59:07
Italianblend wrote:Can someone answer me this: is there any motivation for any of the sprinters to really do a great time on the time trial? If their main goal is the green jersey or stage wins, shouldn’t they just take it easy on a time trial? It won’t hurt their goals and will save energy for tomorrow.
Time cut. 36 minute finishing time with a 25% timecut = 9 minutes down is most you can finish. Worst case scenario would be a flat or cash in the closing minutes that would steal a minute or two. Sagan tried today to get some points toward the green jersey. He killed it, but missed out.
steevo
2013-07-10 11:53:39
Maybe I asked this before, but why isn't the tour co-ed? Surely there has to be one or two pro women who can hang.. Or not?
stefb
2013-07-10 20:17:32
Stef. Look at the chart below. Its all in watts/kilo. For 1 and 5 mins Im a decent cat1/crap domestic pro. Take those numbers to the right and I would be like one of the best women on earth.... Then go to the top of the men and see what they can do.. They are like 25-30% stronger than me, meaning that I probably couldnt draft off of them and stay in the field.
steevo
2013-07-11 08:07:05
So, at the risk of revealing myself as an uncultured plebian, what is the point of holding a race in which 142 riders are all given the same finishing time? Was the point just to create fatigue before the next non-flat stage? This seems like a lot of rigmarole just to get to the more interesting stages (i.e. the mountainous ones), where riders might actually finish at different times. Personally, I'd rather see another rest day (with an added mountain stage) or time trial than see a glorified group ride.
jaysherman5000
2013-07-11 10:23:42
There are lots of different bicycle competitions. Giro, Tour, and Vuelta are three most famous (in men's world) TBF being oldest. And among those competitions there are Time Trials, sprints, criteriums. Just track itself has numerous different events -- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Track_cycling#Race_formats https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_bicycle_racing#Road_race_types This UCI RoadRace calendar for 2013 -- http://www.cyclingnews.com/road/races/calendar Chose event type to all or whatever you want and you see a lot entries per month. Most people just don't see those races. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UCI_race_classifications Eurosport translates a lot bicycle races. I wonder if I can buy this channel in US. Just to answer JaySherman5000 TDF is organized to gain popularity.
mikhail
2013-07-11 10:57:03
JaySherman5000 wrote:So, at the risk of revealing myself as an uncultured plebian, what is the point of holding a race in which 142 riders are all given the same finishing time? Was the point just to create fatigue before the next non-flat stage? This seems like a lot of rigmarole just to get to the more interesting stages (i.e. the mountainous ones), where riders might actually finish at different times. Personally, I’d rather see another rest day (with an added mountain stage) or time trial than see a glorified group ride.
Because every once in awhile this happens: http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/video/2013/jun/30/tour-france-bakelants-video-highlights Stage 2 of this years tour! So awesome.
steevo
2013-07-11 11:49:33
Mikhail wrote:Eurosport translates a lot bicycle races. I wonder if I can buy this channel in US.
I don't know about "buy"
lee
2013-07-11 11:58:51
Yeah, the Bakelants thing was awesome. Obviously I'm not privy to the thinking behind the "same time" thing, but for one thing, the Tour has been around since before it would have been practical or even possible to give each rider a time in a tight group of 100 riders. I think it makes it more exciting because a rider needs to do something really dramatic to get away far enough to receive a distinguishing time. Also, safety. 5 riders riding for a sprint is one thing. Imagine in a large tight group of riders if each rider 70 riders back was pointlessly scrapping for one place better. That would be carnage.
edmonds59
2013-07-11 12:03:09
Jay, part of the point is to showcase other riders. Imagine a Tour that was all TTs. Or all up the side of Ventoux. Gotta give the sprinters their day too. And those flat stages, later in the Tour, will be contested by small breaks formed of guys who are low down on GC and can be given a long leash.
mayhew
2013-07-11 12:15:40
Lee wrote: I don’t know about “buy”
Well otherwise I watch races in HD quality just one day later.
mikhail
2013-07-11 12:20:18
The TDF leader and ultimate winner are determined by their cumulative time over the 21 stages. That yields a winner who (theoretically) is a more well-rounded rider - and not just a specialist (note Cavendish is never anywhere near the GC lead). It also means that in some stages, the GC or overall leader is "back in the pack." That's because the leader need not win stages - they merely have to finish ahead of, or with, their competitors. It says a lot about Froome that he has maintained his lead on a mountain stage (after his team had disintegrated and he was alone fending off Movistar attacks) and a TT - he's a specialist at neither discipline, and yet he added to his lead. Good stuff.
atleastmykidsloveme
2013-07-11 12:25:17
Froome is showing himself to be a total badass. No whining last year when he supported Wiggo, no whining this year when he got left out alone. Barring any catastrophe if he holds on to win that will be very satisfying. I like Cavendish a bit more if only for the Specialized/Isle of Man commercials (on NBC). I love those.
edmonds59
2013-07-11 12:40:25
I guess my real gripe about yesterday's stage was just that the terrain and length gave zero separation among the riders. I think it's obvious that any grand tour should be a test to find the best all-around rider, but to me, that's better accomplished by designing stages with mixed terrain. Comparing the profiles of stage 12 and stage 14, I think stage 14 has a much better design. There are climbs, descents, and flats sprinkled throughout the course. Stage 12 is practically a beach cruise. Even stage 2 had enough vertical challenge to make the ride interesting. Again, I'm not saying that climbing is the be-all end-all of cycling, but there should be a reasonable amount of elevation gain to any meaningful stage in a grand tour, just as there should be descents (this is where I would link to "Cancellara's descent" on youtube, but I can't bc I'm at work). My personal preference for bicycle cycle race watching are the Spring Classics. In my mind, the ideal race course should be challenging enough to cause attrition through the peloton, and I think Paris-Roubaix is the best example of that. I'm not expecting cobblestones to show up in the TdF anytime soon (wouldn't that be exciting!). Then again maybe Paris-Roubaix spoiled my expecation of bike race finishes. Is it really common to see 90+ riders get the same finishing time in a given race?
jaysherman5000
2013-07-12 08:12:19
JaySherman5000 wrote:I think it’s obvious that any grand tour should be a test to find the best all-around rider, but to me, that’s better accomplished by designing stages with mixed terrain.
Why? Anyone can say that this is obvious to him/her... In my mind all round bicyclist is like one universal bike -- kind of ok (you can do it not much more) on road, in mountains, CX, downhill but do not excel in each event. Goals for sprinters and climbers are opposite ones.
mikhail
2013-07-12 09:07:33
@Mikhail: when I think of a 21-stage cycling event that bills itself as the most important race of them all, I assume it's going to include a variety of topographical challenges. That should necessitate that the winner is well-rounded enough to not be dropped on the sprints, maintain good form on the climbs, and put out sufficient power to stay alive in the time trials. Based on what I've seen so far (across races for the last few years), a rider (or team of riders) would have to be head and shoulders above the rest of the peloton to gain a time advantage on a flat stage. Sure, you can win the stage and earn points by sprinting, but it seems unlikely that the yellow jersey can be taken that way. The time trials and the mountains seem like the only place where any rider can hope to gain time on the leader, so stages like yesterdays seem futile. In fairness, maybe it was simply team tactics that held everyone together in stage 12, but I still think more hills would've made for a more interesting finish. FWIW, I do enjoy watching Sagan kick ass. He really seems like the class clown that also makes the honor roll but doesn't really give a shit either way. And his podium appearances can be...colorful?
jaysherman5000
2013-07-12 09:31:13
I have lost complete and all respect for Peter Sagan after he sexually harassed that podium girl and then her complaints were dismissed as him just having fun.
marvelousm3
2013-07-12 10:07:47
@mr marvelous: I actually can't tell if you're being sarcastic or sincere. Regardless, there was quite a bit of rage by a lot of people over that incident, Sagan apologized several times for it, and IIRC, he even gave flowers to Maja (aka "the podium girl") as an apology before the Ronde. I don't think any of that is consistent with simply dismissing the incident as him "just having fun." He made an error, he was called out for it, and he did what he could to correct it. If that isn't enough to restore his credibility as a decent person, what is?
jaysherman5000
2013-07-12 10:24:28
@JaySherman5000 Apologize and gives her flowers, well that should make it all better. I mans credibility on respecting a woman is shown by never disrespecting her to begin with. He did a couple things to save his public image as many public figures do. When you touch a woman against her will it is sexual harassment or assault, flowers and apology don't correct that. Cycling is his career and he did that while working. If I did that at my job to a lady would saying sorry and giving flowers saves my job.
marvelousm3
2013-07-12 10:35:20
@MM: Fair enough, but how do you know the apology wasn't sincere? The fact is, we can't know either way whether or not Sagan was actually sorry for his actions. I'm taking the less cynical viewpoint and giving him the benefit of the doubt. I totally believe that he was just acting out of youthful stupidity when he touched Maja, and I hope he has since learned a lesson about respecting boundaries. As for the consequences of doing something like that at work, I think that depends very much on your employer's HR department. Some would probably only give a simple write-up for a first offense, while others might fire you on the spot. There's no universal standard to be applied.
jaysherman5000
2013-07-12 10:58:45
Youthful stupidity excuse has been used far to much to excuse sexual assault. Sexual harassment/ assault is a criminal offense. If an employer chooses not to act properly they are also liable for charges and/ or lawsuit. As far as the sincerity of his apology it doesn't matter if he is truly sorry or not, it is not relevant after he assaults her.
marvelousm3
2013-07-12 11:08:20
re: Elevation changes on the tdf. I like the flat stages. Not as much as a good battle with a mountain top finish but all the same, I do enjoy the bunch sprint days. It shows cases other talents. I don't want to see a field of 198 riders each weighing as much as a jockey riding mountain for 21 days. The diversity keeps it interesting. As much as I am amazed at the best climbers, I'm also amazed at the speeds of the top sprinters. Only change I'd like to see on flat stages would be that I'd like to see time taken at the 3km mark and the order taken at the finish line. That would allow the gc contenders get the same time and then drop back out of harms way while the sprint teams battle for the win. I haven't seen it yet but from the rundown, today's flat (except for one hill) stage had a big impact on the gc.
sew
2013-07-12 11:33:40
Sagan was wrong and acted out of line, no question. He treated her like a piece of meat. Organizers having a stable of coiffed hotties there to kiss the winners is only a step or two less disgusting in my book though. Sends the message that men are valued for their accomplishments and women for their looks. It's still true a lot of times, but why glorify something we all say we disagree with?
lee
2013-07-12 11:44:03
@MM: I don't think youth and stupidity excuse anything, but they certainly might explain why the act was committed in the first place. That said, I agree that Sagan deserved more (or any) punishment, but I don't think it's fair to condemn him for life as a misogynist/pervert/whatever over one incident. If there's a pattern of behavior that continues, that's another story. @sew: I think today's stage may have changed my mind about the relevance of flat(-er) stages in the TdF. There was quite a bit of activity on the GC leader board. Then again, maybe Froome is saving himself for the mountains...
jaysherman5000
2013-07-12 11:54:55
I have to say I'm having a hard time accusing a young man of harassment or assault when he responds to a young attractive woman who was hired to kiss him in the same way he might respond to a young attractive woman who he knows socially kissing him. Most of the fault has to lie with the people who hired the woman in the first place.
jonawebb
2013-07-12 12:11:30
Today a perfect example of why they have flat stages in the Tour.
mayhew
2013-07-12 12:33:13
I do think the podium girl routine needs to go away, in my opinion women have come a long way and it's a setback. However no matter how a woman is dressed, acts, or her profession she has the right to set boundaries that should never be violated. Keep bringing up his youth as an excuse doesn't work for me. It is also common that men defend men who have done wrong to women as men on this board are doing. I have been hugged and kissed by young ladies in the same way as on the podium but I never felt it was an invitation to molest them. If a woman's mouth says no but her body says yes listen to her mouth and we would never have this conversation.
marvelousm3
2013-07-12 12:37:28
@double-M: As I said above, I'm not using Sagan's youth as an excuse for anything. I was merely presenting it as an insight into why a man might think it's okay in the first place: in this case, young Pete has come up in a world where the institutional degradation of women happens daily at the hands of his employer. Is it any suprise then that he might be tempted to commit such a degrading act himself? I think where our dissent begins is with the severity of the incident. Is one case of grabass enough to justify marking a man with a scarlet "M" (for molester) for life? I think, in this case, no, it isn't. Remorse was expressed, amends were made with the victim, and so far there is no reason to think a pattern of behavior has been established. If the victim expressed more concern, if pinchey Pete were still at it, or if he never bothered to try and apologize, I think then there would be a case for harsher judgement. Then there's the question of redemption: is Sagan (or anyone) incapable of reform and of redeeming himself? I don't know much about his personal life, but I tend to think that most people are capable of reform. If Sagan starts wearing "No means yes, yes means anal" t-shirts, then maybe my opinion of him will change. Until then, I have no reason to think that he can't be taught appropriate behavior and learn to practice it.
jaysherman5000
2013-07-12 13:25:18
I don't know any of the details of the Sagan thing, but it seems to me that if the woman decided not to press any charges, as seems likely, for fear of jeopardizing her position or income, the Tour organizers should have taken appropriate action, whether it was a fine, temporary suspension, or whatever, so Peter would pay his debt to society, learn his lesson, and the world could move on. That burden, or failure, would be on the Tour, as far as I'm concerned. Appropriate punishments for anything are a broad spectrum depending on the society you exist in. In France maybe he gets a stern finger-wagging, in Egypt maybe he gets a hand cut off. Who knows. This is perhaps one realm we in the US are a bit ahead of other countries, we have been on a course toward getting it right, haltingly. To brand someone a sex offender or criminal for life due to a stupid juvenile butt pinch, eh, seems a bit too far toward the cutting off the hand end of the spectrum.
edmonds59
2013-07-12 13:57:17
Paging @stefb: Let Women Ride In The Tour De France, Cyclists Say In Petition
Calling road cycling "one of the worst offenders" in gender inequity, four elite female athletes have created a petition to ask the sport's hallmark event, the Tour de France, to include women next year. Citing the inclusion of women at the world's top marathons, the petition's authors say, "After a century, it is about time women are allowed to race the Tour de France, too."
Petition is here.
quizbot
2013-07-12 14:08:14
I'm experiencing lots of self-correction today, for whatever reason. Having said what I said about attitudes in this country, I remain appalled that here things like "The Tilted Kilt", Hooters, and the Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders can exist as viable things here. Big WTF? I am vastly more offended by those things than I am by a couple of decently dressed young women handing over trophies and kisses at the Tour. And Bernard Hinault kisses the podium winners in the same way too for what it's worth.
edmonds59
2013-07-12 14:21:42
mr marvelous wrote:When you touch a woman against her will it is sexual harassment or assault, flowers and apology don’t correct that.
MM, this is a very culture dependent. I know cases when if you don't do those things then it considered to be a disrespect.
mikhail
2013-07-12 14:45:14
steevo wrote:
But does this mean no women are strong enough to win the TdF, or that they aren't strong enough to, say, ride as part of a team? I know there are some pretty old riders in the TdF. Are they all still at the international level?
jonawebb
2013-07-12 15:02:15
I understand Sagan was born and raised in Slovakia, where the culture may permit this sort of thing more (as in Italy, from what I've read). In moments of excitement, some people fall back to their native language, not the one appropriate for where they are. Perhaps likewise this behavior. One incident, with an apology? Not a big deal, I'd say.
steven
2013-07-12 15:31:57
quizbot wrote:Paging @stefb: Let Women Ride In The Tour De France, Cyclists Say In Petition
Calling road cycling “one of the worst offenders” in gender inequity, four elite female athletes have created a petition to ask the sport’s hallmark event, the Tour de France, to include women next year. Citing the inclusion of women at the world’s top marathons, the petition’s authors say, “After a century, it is about time women are allowed to race the Tour de France, too.”
Petition is here.
Today's stage is 173 km. Cavendish (and the rest of 9) finished in 3 hours 40 minutes 08 seconds. It's 13.1 m/s or 47.15 km/h or 29.47 mph of average speed. http://www.letour.fr/le-tour/2013/docs/TDF13_reglement_BD.pdf -- page 33 ARTICLE 22 Permitted finishing times Even we take coefficient 3 (22%) it's only 48 minutes 27 seconds. And I don't believe it's 3, it looks like 2. Whoever finished with time 4h 28m 36 s and longer should be eliminated from the race. If coefficient is 2 then 18% of allowance time is 39 minutes and 39 seconds. If UCI just let women bike with men without changing the rules then, I think, we will see whole team elimination in few starting stages. :( So I think those four ladies would like to have a women competition as in Olympics separated from men. But on the same course and at the same time so mass media would show it too.
mikhail
2013-07-12 15:33:40
Mikhail wrote:I know cases when if you don’t do those things then it considered to be a disrespect.
Returning a greeting kiss is one thing. Grabbing someone's ass is something else entirely.
epanastrophe
2013-07-12 15:35:38
jonawebb wrote: But does this mean no women are strong enough to win the TdF,
This is correct.
or that they aren’t strong enough to, say, ride as part of a team?
Depends on a stage (if we are talking about TDF or other big multistage race). If stage has a lot of 1 and HC climbs then a lot women would be eliminated by "Permitted Finishing Time" Rule -- http://www.letour.fr/le-tour/2013/docs/TDF13_reglement_BD.pdf article 22 for TDF. Also, they would be eliminated in TT. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_UCI_Road_World_Championships_%E2%80%93_Men%27s_time_trial : Date 19 September 2012 Distance 46.2 km (28.71 mi) Winning time 58' 38.76" (47.267 km/h or 29.370 mph) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_UCI_Road_World_Championships_%E2%80%93_Women%27s_time_trial : Date 18 September 2012 Distance 24.3 km (15.10 mi) Winning time 32' 26.46" (44.573 km/h or 27.696 mph) Course is almost twice shorter and speed is lower.
I know there are some pretty old riders in the TdF. Are they all still at the international level?
TDF is controlled by UCI.
mikhail
2013-07-12 16:38:48
buffalo buffalo wrote:
Mikhail wrote:I know cases when if you don’t do those things then it considered to be a disrespect.
Returning a greeting kiss is one thing. Grabbing someone’s ass is something else entirely.
In american culture -- yes. I know cases when grabbing was not just accepted but almost required. I don't like it either and it was a man dominated culture but nevertheless.
mikhail
2013-07-12 16:40:56
For podiums in women's races in Europe, do they have cute guys give awards and kisses?
helen-s
2013-07-12 16:42:36
helen s wrote: For podiums in women’s races in Europe, do they have cute guys give awards and kisses?
I was thinking the same. :) But I don't remember seeing one. Usually girls or officials.
mikhail
2013-07-12 16:45:58
@Jay, Yes, they are all international class. No one (anymore) is riding the Tour for training or just to ride. Everyone is expected to contribute. Even the older guys are doing well (Jens Voigt, for instance, who came quite close to a stage win)
mayhew
2013-07-12 19:00:31
helen s wrote: For podiums in women’s races in Europe, do they have cute guys give awards and kisses?
Yeah that is kind of insulting that they use women in that way. Unfortunately, it is still that way in other sports. Not to get off topic, but I am really not pleased with women's roles at Interbike, too.
stefb
2013-07-13 06:01:14
All things addressed in this thread have been beaten to death on the internet already.
steevo
2013-07-13 09:07:00
edmonds59 wrote:I’m experiencing lots of self-correction today, for whatever reason. Having said what I said about attitudes in this country, I remain appalled that here things like “The Tilted Kilt”, Hooters, and the Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders can exist as viable things here. Big WTF? I am vastly more offended by those things than I am by a couple of decently dressed young women handing over trophies and kisses at the Tour. And Bernard Hinault kisses the podium winners in the same way too for what it’s worth.
I am offended that we claim to live in a so-called "free country" and some people want to take the freedoms away from those girls making good money at a place like Hooters or whatever and having fun. Who are you are anyone else to say someone can't do that? I prefer freedoms. I never liked cheerleaders stuff and think it is tacky as all get out, but I certainly wouldn't want to prevent a team or anyone from doing that. The girls that sign up know what it is about. Who cares?
gg
2013-07-13 11:05:11
mr marvelous wrote:Youthful stupidity excuse has been used far to much to excuse sexual assault. Sexual harassment/ assault is a criminal offense. If an employer chooses not to act properly they are also liable for charges and/ or lawsuit.
A lawsuit? Really? Goodness this was in France, not the US. Here is a thought. The young man made a mistake and apologized for it. The women excepted it. Good for them! It doesn't mean the woman is stupid, it just means she, who was there and was the one involved was okay with an apology before we start running to attorneys and making a huge deal over something that most Europeans would be maybe no happy about, but they certainly wouldn't elevated it to stupidity. I mean goodness! I also agree with Steveo. That thing has been beaten to death. Get over yourselves. It isn't the Tour de America, it is the Tour de France. If France wants podium girls and are more laid back about women's bodies and don't look at it sexually like we do, then that is their right. Maybe they just like the fashion of it and think it is fun. Wow.
gg
2013-07-13 11:20:03
@gg more convincing if you weren't referring to women as girls...
jonawebb
2013-07-13 12:04:11
I work in medicine.. I could care less about nudity, skimpy clothes, etc. people can work as whatever they want, but if the only role of a woman in the biggest bike race in the world is to stand next to a guy and smile, that is lame. Besides that, it is totally unnecessary. Same with interbike. Market the product for what it is. Ps I think mostly every topic on every message board has been beaten to death on the Internet.
stefb
2013-07-13 13:09:40
jonawebb wrote:@gg more convincing if you weren’t referring to women as girls…
They are half my age, so they seem like girls to me, but if that is all you can gripe about, then yeah, I made a very strong case and sure, I could have used the word "women". Anyway, just because the US is sue happy, doesn't mean other countries are. There is a big world out there and we don't control other cultures thank goodness. Apology given, apology excepted. As far as her thinking about losing her job because of a lawsuit, I doubt she even thought about running to an attorney (mommy) and telling, "he hit me". Not all countries are like the US you know.
gg
2013-07-13 15:17:24
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tour_de_France#Origins Fun fact: the Tour de France was started as a last-ditch effort to increase newspaper sales of a daily sports rag called L'Auto, which I'm reasonably certain is French for "The Car." The paper was struggling with their rival publication: Le Vélo. Again, I'm reasonably certain that translates into English as "the bike" or "the bicycle." So, it seems the race that bills itself as the most prestigious in all of its sport was started in order to help "The Car" defeat "The Bicycle." themoreyouknow.ogg
jaysherman5000
2013-07-15 09:25:32
I did a little digging and found that L'Auto was named thusly as an homage to the climate of excitement related to car racing among sports enthusiasts at the time. In fact, L'Auto was originally entitled L'Auto-Velo, which was deemed too close to L'Velo (their competitor), so they dropped the "Velo" and created a cycling race to promote their magazine that highlighted car racing in an attempt to overcome L'Velo. Loosely translated: "We will take the Car-Bike, remove the 'Bike' so we only have the Car, crush the Bike with the Car with a bike race, leaving only the Car the victor." Oh France.
lizzimac
2013-07-15 10:24:07
Quite the ride yesterday. I felt fortunate to turn on the tv when I got home to see the last 10k or so. I was impressed.
helen-s
2013-07-15 12:06:54
"If France wants podium girls and are more laid back about women’s bodies and don’t look at it sexually like we do, then that is their right." That's what you call a strong case? Was the pinch intended in a non-sexual way? If their bodies aren't sexualized, what is driving the wardrobe choices? Regardless of France's culture, the TdF is an international competition and should be held to international standards. Considering the enormity of global violence against women, yes, sexual assault should be treated seriously. I would not participate in an award ceremony like that and we probably should not be participating in Interbike if the same crap is happening there. Sexism needs to be challenged at all levels. What the guy needs to do now is quickly get married, and the whole story will be forgotten and he can continue on with his career.
sgtjonson
2013-07-17 16:17:55
I had lunch in OTB today and saw some of the tour. What surprised me that people lined the road, yet no one reached out and grabbed riders - even though that would have put them on international TV. I imaigine it happens some (IIRC, it've heard of it) . But not enough for it to be unacceptable to have spectators close enough to be able to harass the rivals of their favorites. Hard to imagine that happening with a popular sport here.
mick
2013-07-17 16:29:25
@Mick it has happened but it is very rare. In 100 years of the Tour it hasn't happened that often.
marvelousm3
2013-07-17 17:59:34
Pierce wrote:the TdF is an international competition and should be held to international standards.
And US standards are not international ones. Neither by people population nor by territory.
mikhail
2013-07-18 09:18:32
Pierce wrote:What the guy needs to do now
Sorry, but who are you to tell Peter what to do? You know there is Russian saying: Don't tell me what to do and I would not tell you where to go.
mikhail
2013-07-18 09:19:37
Mick wrote:What surprised me that people lined the road, yet no one reached out and grabbed riders – even though that would have put them on international TV.
This is an American version. I can give you EuroSport version (lengthy, about 5-6 hours) and you see how people reaching them, public urination of whole peloton, etc. Moreover, it's a tradition o push riders up to the hill (but not leaders). Guess where do they reach to push guys?
mikhail
2013-07-18 09:23:03
Not to be supportive of the practice, but I would hardly say the podium women's wardrobe is "sexualized", at least not in comparison to any typical American teenage High School cheerleading squad. Just pretty average, tasteful women's clothing, tame by any US standard.
edmonds59
2013-07-18 09:46:16
Pierce wrote:the TdF is an international competition and should be held to international standards.
And US standards are not international ones. Neither by people population nor by territory.
. . . .
The wonderful thing about standards is that there are so many of them to choose from.
--http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Grace_Hopper
reddan
2013-07-18 10:07:30
mr marvelous wrote:@Mick it has happened but it is very rare. In 100 years of the Tour it hasn’t happened that often.
Nope -- this is a quote from live feed (http://www.letour.fr/le-tour/2013/us/live/aso/): 17:03 Riblon: 30" behind Van Garderen Van Garderen is still racing for the stage win. He's having to fend off idiot spectators who have been pushing and shoving him while they "cheer" but the American is still 30" ahead of his nearest rival, Riblon.
mikhail
2013-07-18 10:08:00
http://youtu.be/z1DwSICLGBI "During stage 14 a spectator leapt from the crowd and punched Merckx in the kidney. Frenchman Bernard Thevenet took over the lead, and after Merckx fell and broke his cheekbone, he was unable to take back the lead, and Thevenet became the winner of the race."
marvelousm3
2013-07-19 06:51:04
This is completely awesome. I've heard of taking a trip to the Tour, but...
edmonds59
2013-07-19 11:33:06
What am I going to do with this emptiness in my life?
edmonds59
2013-07-22 11:28:12
Tour de France City Bike...
mikhail
2013-07-22 20:07:42

Tour de France City Bike…
Can you get a front Zipp with a dynamo hub?
reddan
2013-07-22 21:10:52
I really enjoyed the light for final stage - Paris at twilight! "L'heure entre chien et loup" - perhaps my favorite French phrase- the time between dog and wolf.
helen-s
2013-07-23 05:26:41
@helen, yes, I loved the evening finish. Even my wife who couldn't care less about biking or racing, said "Well why don't we go there sometime for that". ! That phrase is pretty amazing. I don't know French but I've always wanted to learn.
edmonds59
2013-07-23 05:48:48
I have withdraw. I just love early July. I have the summer off so I do my exercise or whatever and DVR the stage and then spend the day watching it. I can't believe it's almost August. I enjoyed this years's tour a lot. Was disapointed in team BMC, was really hoping TeJay would have a better year. But I found my new favorite pro is Quintana. Excellent little climber that guy. Froome was really impressive. He simply answered every attack. He really was the best rider out there. I hope next year is just as good. End amateur analysis.
italianblend
2013-07-24 12:57:37
The question is what does this mean for Wiggins next year.
marvelousm3
2013-07-24 13:56:02
Watching the alpine stages made me wonder how far I'd need to go to find some longish (5 miles or more) ascents. I know we don't have vonteaux in our back yard but it would be fun to go up something remotely comparable just to pretend. Any ideas?
mryoshi
2013-07-24 18:44:46
Three suggestions: Sugarlands Road, Tucker County, WV. Location Road out of St. George, WV. Route 219 from Hambleton, WV up to the Tucker County High School.
jmccrea
2013-07-24 19:04:33
TDF 1998 http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/07/24/us-doping-cycling-france-idUSBRE96N0PA20130724 -- Pantani doped, Ullrich doped, Julich doped (top thre winners), Durand doped, Jalabert doped, . Total 40 people out of less than 200 doped. http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/more-sports/i-doped-for-1998-tour-de-france-confesses-australian-cycling-star-stuart-ogrady/story-fnibbyyv-1226684658992 -- O'Grady doped. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/cycling/1998/tourdefrance/news/1998/08/02/drug_chronology/
July 31 - Massi and Terrados are placed under formal investigation. The remaining riders of the TVM team drop out. There are 14 teams left from the original 21, and less than 100 riders from the original 189.
ANd WADA does not check every rider.
mikhail
2013-07-26 14:58:46