Wait… When are the flocks?
The waivers were provided and required by an insurance company. They give it to you and tell you not to modify it. If there are any legal experts or insurance industry insiders here that can see a way around them, I’m sure everyone would be thrilled.
I remember signing a waiver for the keg ride, Pedal Pittsburgh, and the MS 150 too. How many rides lack the “sign here” ritual?
I signed one for the one MTCC ride I did last year… or the year before…
I need to do more organized rides.
Regardless, Flock is awesome.
How many rides lack the “sign here” ritual?
Aside from CM and (most) alleycats, not many.
Brian and Brad are completely right. Waivers are mostly designed to act as a deterrent for frivolous lawsuits required by every insurance company, for almost everything.
I know there are people that don’t participate in Flock events because of waivers. I also know people who don’t participate in other events for various reasons as well. To each there own–you will never please everyone.
As for the specific reasons we have waivers, it was my call, and I will take any complaints about it.
However, if one has an issue with Flock’s waiver, they should really read the terms they agree to by using pretty much any form of technology–the agreement to have a simple landline telephone is more limiting and in depth than Flock’s waiver.
If one is worried about the information we collect, that’s a personal decision, but I have a feeling that if anyone really wanted that info it could all be found in public records.
If organizers of other events don’t want to have insurance and waivers, that’s on them. I (unfortunately) live in a world where people sue–especially if they think you have something of worth (even though the value might not be what is imagined).
Personally, I don’t hold many liquid assets, I do hold some assets which I care enough about to not lose in a petty lawsuit because someone did something stupid on a ride I organized. Luckily, there hasn’t been any issues with ride events in Pittsburgh (that I know of), but I am not willing to gamble everything I’ve worked for on the chance that it will stay that way.
Also, if anyone cares, we will be limiting the waiver/membership form to an annual agreement to make it easier for both sides.
The reason for the 60 day agreement was our insurance is weighted based on the number of “members”. To avoid over-paying, we though it would help to make the term 60 days. That way if someone came to the first ride of the year and never came back, we weren’t still paying for them.
To me, signing a waiver means that if some ugly driver kills me on a flock ride, my ugly driver relatives might hesitate before they sue Nick D.
Seems reasonable to me.
Nick doesn’t want anyone to know, but if you sign the waiver, he will turn you into the human centiPad. He is building a really long tall tandem for it
I’m thinking about starting a group ride just to have participants sign “insurance waivers” to collect personal information to sell to telemarketers, identity thieves and corporate boogeymen.
@ALMKLM – You could corner the coveted “poor-as-dirt” demographic!
Privacy fears are not what turns me off about waivers. Any sane person realizes that any info on an insurance waiver, like your name, address and phone number, is readily available online.
@Brad:Privacy fears are not what turns me off about waivers.
Out of curiosity, what is it you dislike about them?
For me, asking others to sign waivers feels as if I’m treating them like children who require prompting to assume responsibility for themselves.
[ETA:]Note that, as I mentioned above, I don’t mind _signing_ waivers, as I understand the majority of those people asking have good and valid reasons to do so.
I hate signing waivers and I hate asking people to sign them. However, they do (hopefully) make one pause to think about responsible behavior. And, unfortunately, even if an injured party were not inclined to pursue a lawsuit, one can be sure that their insurance company and/or family members might. I was quite worried about personal liability during the try a bike event: all it takes is one jack ass. Thankfully, Flock of Cycles was able to present the event and the participants were a great bunch. If that were not the case, I would probably limit it to close friends and hope for the best. That, too comes with risks.
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