BikePGH Message Board Archive

i said it in the other thread and ill repeat here: i think the wiki needs to be independent. otherwise bike pgh could be seen as responsible and liable for its content. it would also allow the wiki more freedom on political issues (if someone posted something seen as endorsing a politician or party in the wiki it could be a massive headache for bikepgh and its 503c status)

cburch

2013-12-02 10:28:25

Hmm, well, either way would work for me. The only reason I like it being here is that it could share logins. But, sure, the other way would work too, and might be easier to maintain. Oh, but definitely, it should be linked to from the BikePgh main page, so new people can find it.

jonawebb

2013-12-02 10:31:23

sharing log-ins might be more of a nightmare than you'd think. dan has managed to fix it up quite a bit, but the back end is still basically held together with bubblegum and willpower.

cburch

2013-12-02 10:37:00

while i support the idea of the wiki, i hesitate to have it connected via logins to this site, without more info. We can link it, but we don't have the resources to dedicate to getting them to connect. the easiest would be to just get the people who are interested in this, set it up, and we can figure out how to promote or link, etc. i'm also happy to supply any info and resources that i can, but don't have the bandwidth to be involved in organizing it.

erok

2013-12-02 10:45:53

I like the Indy-Wiki, without any derogation or criticism of BikePgh. I think the wiki model provides an editorial capability. We'd want to include aspects of Pgh Biking not really seen here: for instance (Colin maybe you can speak to this) the Mtb community - things like NorthPark, etc. There's a racing community, there's the indoor community now, there's the track community about to flourish even more (two tracks in the area), there's the alleycat community - and they all have bodies of knowledge that should be made more accessible to newcomers, with the intent of growing the overall bicycling population. (i think) Commuters, Overnighters, etc.

vannever

2013-12-02 10:50:42

this sounds vaguely communist to me. i'm totally in!

cburch

2013-12-02 11:11:18

Ok, sounds good so far. Now, are we talking about something like on sites.google or an actual website? (in which case funding would be needed) sounds vaguely communist Please, communitarian. Or maybe anarcho-syndicalist, at most.

ahlir

2013-12-02 11:38:07

I'd prefer a real site from day one, so permalinks/URLs don't need to be remapped someday. I'd be willing to provide space on my Bluehost account (PHP/MySQL) at least to get it up and running initially, if someone else wants to grab a domain name.

reddan

2013-12-02 11:43:47

I'll kick in for the domain name, if folks want to come up with a name.

jonawebb

2013-12-02 11:45:28

yinzwannabike.com? Or maybe yinzwannaride.com?

reddan

2013-12-02 11:51:55

Spokes-n-at.com? Gitdahellaht.com?

marko82

2013-12-02 12:03:24

oooh, this is always the fun part. pghbike.org seemed like an obvious choice, but some local dude already has the .com version (but no website); .net and .org are still available. Looks like bikingpgh.* is available. But pghbiking.com is an HVAC outfit (owner a biker?) fun! On a mildly more serious note: Pair Networks sponsors biking events around here. Maybe they could donate or subsidize a hosting account. Anybody here from there?

ahlir

2013-12-02 12:03:46

Some of those names are cute, I'm not saying which ones, but ideally it would be a name folks could stumble on when they first arrive here, looking for biking advice. So let's make it really obvious. Edit: So that means more like Ahlir's suggestions than the others. Say bikingpgh.com. But if we get the domain name, what about all the rest? Who is going to set up the database, install the editing tools, deal with all the crap complaints, etc.?

jonawebb

2013-12-02 12:07:07

jonawebb wrote:
But if we get the domain name, what about all the rest? Who is going to set up the database, install the editing tools, deal with all the crap complaints, etc.?

I'll volunteer for now, so we can get something set up and tested (try different wiki packages, etc.) Ideally, I'd love to offload it onto its' own host someday (nothing wrong with Bluehost, but my account there is more for me to screw around with stuff than anything else); but I've got the space, and can make a bit of time for administrative crapola as needed.

reddan

2013-12-02 13:26:23

Yay! So should I register bikingpgh.com?

jonawebb

2013-12-02 13:33:37

This seems to be available, too: pittsburghbikewiki.com

stuinmccandless

2013-12-02 13:47:03

I can contribute my technical skills. May I suggest that we use MediaWiki, the same software that runs Wikipedia?

ted

2013-12-02 13:49:21

Ted wrote:
I can contribute my technical skills. May I suggest that we use MediaWiki, the same software that runs Wikipedia?

I was just looking at MediaWiki...makes all kinds of sense to me.

reddan

2013-12-02 13:51:24

The simplest and most obvious thing would be http://wiki.bike-pgh.org, and make it a menu item off the main site. Is the 501(c)(3) status and political liability issue really relevant? Cannot we hang the Wiki software structure off the main website, and put a big honking disclaimer that it's a publicly editable wiki, and thus Bike-Pgh can disclaim liability and make that disclaimer stick, should it come to that?

stuinmccandless

2013-12-02 13:52:36

If we hang it off the bike-pgh.org site there's no need to register a new domain name. Just redirect. And I really don't see the difference, from the IRS's point of view, between someone on the message board saying they like Romney or whoever, and someone saying it on a Wiki that's linked to from the BikePgh site. Is there a difference legally?

jonawebb

2013-12-02 14:10:50

MediaWiki is fine, as long as someone maintains it (older versions have been hacked in nasty ways). Also, a maintained MySQL (or such) server. Though it even runs on SQLite. This can't hang off the bikepgh.org domain. That would be as compromising as hosting it completely. You'd also want to grab the {com,org,net} set, to avoid futures annoyances.

ahlir

2013-12-02 14:30:46

bikingpgh.com, .net, and .org have been registered. Get hacking! Edit: that was easy. I don't see what Obama's problem was.

jonawebb

2013-12-02 15:13:03

Can we define a redirect from the bike-pgh website to whatever y'uns set up? Maybe even with one of those "You are now leaving the Bike-Pgh website." messages?

stuinmccandless

2013-12-02 16:10:33

StuInMcCandless wrote:The simplest and most obvious thing would be http://wiki.bike-pgh.org, and make it a menu item off the main site. Is the 501(c)(3) status and political liability issue really relevant? Cannot we hang the Wiki software structure off the main website, and put a big honking disclaimer that it’s a publicly editable wiki, and thus Bike-Pgh can disclaim liability and make that disclaimer stick, should it come to that?

+1, how is a wiki any more or less liability than a message board?

ericf

2013-12-02 18:11:51

it's not liability at all. it's the tech headache of logins, integrating with the current site, who's allowed to edit, etc. if there's already a wiki platform, get it going. redirects and links are easy.

erok

2013-12-03 11:11:32

Do we really need a wiki? I think that an update to the message board home page, with links to categories, would go a long way. My idea would be something like this: http://forums.mtbr.com/forum.php I posted this a few days ago in the constructive ideas thread, but I don't know if Bike PGH has the resources to do this. I can provide the resources, if people think it is a good idea.

ericf

2013-12-04 09:52:15

I don't know if "wiki" has an actual definition, but that just looks to me like a different message board format, and one that I like less than this one. Clunkier. Not seeing a benefit.

edmonds59

2013-12-04 11:54:52

@ed, well, for example I started http://bikingpgh.com/index.php?title=Dangerous_Drivers. So it's easier to look up dangerous drivers.

jonawebb

2013-12-04 12:43:34

Now jonawebb, that looks like something that I was imagining - one page, no "threads", no clicking through, for the categories we foresee above, set up in paragraph outline format. That would be useful. I request a "Slow Biking" section.

edmonds59

2013-12-04 13:15:03

When I have a chance, I'm going to compile info from the love-your-bike-lock-it-right thread and also make a "what to do when your bike is stolen" page.

headloss

2013-12-04 13:43:27

edmonds59 wrote:I request a “Slow Biking” section.

I created a Slow Biking page here -- I think it's OK for you to go ahead and add content yourself. Probably Dan has things set up so you could've created the page, too, but I'm not sure. Just create an account and edit away.

jonawebb

2013-12-04 13:45:37

that just looks to me like a different message board format A wiki provides a way to organize material, like a manual. It's collaborative in a coordinated way -- a repository of information. A wiki can be edited, so a particular entry will be up to date whenever you look at it. A message board is a chronological list of comments; unless you read the whole sequence you miss stuff -- a conversation.

ahlir

2013-12-04 16:37:38

I threw an image together that (I think?) won't violate any copyrights, but I can't figure out how to load it into the wiki. Anywho, just something temporary... and I can easily make changes or start over once given some feedback.

headloss

2013-12-05 03:07:50

OH dang I opened my mouth and now I need to get to work! Thanks, jonawebb. I'm going to have questions about doing this. Someone hold my hand?

edmonds59

2013-12-05 07:30:14

So, is the thing jonawebb linked a go? Should I start editing? I don't know that I've heard a concensus.

edmonds59

2013-12-05 09:15:29

Edit away...what's the worst that can happen? I'm sure we'll be tweaking it for a while, but the changes will almost certainly be independent of the content...feel free to put stuff in.

reddan

2013-12-05 09:26:15

Well, it's there, and I don't know if we really need a consensus for this. It's not like we're taking anything away from anybody. Go for it. There are links on the main page for Wiki syntax, or you can use Google. It's pretty straightforward, and there are buttons in the editor for things like web links etc. There's a talk page where you can discuss stuff -- we've been talking about some issues on the main page.

jonawebb

2013-12-05 09:27:03

Drewbacca wrote:I threw an image together that (I think?) won’t violate any copyrights, but I can’t figure out how to load it into the wiki.

According to this, I think it's something Dan has to do.

jonawebb

2013-12-05 09:36:22

jonawebb wrote:
According to this, I think it’s something Dan has to do.

On my to-dos for tonight.

reddan

2013-12-05 09:53:54

reddan wrote:…what’s the worst that can happen?

Uh, people might yell at me? LOL!

edmonds59

2013-12-05 10:43:35

Well, I put something in to try it out. :/

edmonds59

2013-12-05 11:18:46

jonawebb wrote:Well, it’s there, and I don’t know if we really need a consensus for this. It’s not like we’re taking anything away from anybody. Go for it.

edmonds is just some sort of socialist bureaucrat wanting everything to go to committee. :p Act first, ask questions later*... or else this never gets off the ground n'at. ;) *just like a healthy marriage.

headloss

2013-12-05 11:18:55

Drewbacca wrote:
Act first, ask questions later*… or else this never gets off the ground n’at. ;) *just like a healthy marriage.

I think you should start a wiki page to preserve such gems of relationship advice...it'd be a shame for them to sink into obscurity. :-)

reddan

2013-12-05 11:21:00

Drewbacca wrote:
Act first, ask questions later*… or else this never gets off the ground n’at. ;) *just like a healthy marriage.

I think you should start a wiki page to preserve such gems of relationship advice...it'd be a shame for them to sink into obscurity. :-)

reddan

2013-12-05 11:21:06

I am not a bureaucrat! :D

edmonds59

2013-12-05 11:22:19

jonawebb wrote: I think it’s something Dan has to do.

That's what I figured, thanks for finding that. I'm not sure if Dan already had something in mind or if he was waiting for someone to throw something together. Two other ideas I've had. 1. use the design of the bike-racks. 2. I have some ideas in my head but I need to grab a set of markers and draw them out... then again, the image would start to get more complex and simple is probably best/better.

headloss

2013-12-05 11:24:15

I put some starter content at http://bikingpgh.com/index.php?title=Main_Page . So far it's pretty terse: mostly links to elsewhere. But it's links I've found very useful over the years. Is no one else adding to the wiki yet?

paulheckbert

2013-12-06 15:13:02

That looks nice! I put some test text on the "Slow Biking" page (still waiting for some permission) that jonawebb linked to above, but how does that connect to that main page??

edmonds59

2013-12-06 15:36:05

paulheckbert wrote:Is no one else adding to the wiki yet?

I've been adding content, of course. The 'Discussion' tab on the main page has info on what's going on. There's a page http://bikingpgh.com/index.php?title=Work_in_progress that keeps track of the pages being added.

edmonds59 wrote:how does that connect to that main page??

The main page has to be edited appropriately to link to the page you added. You can do that. Jump right in. Also, MediaWiki comes with pages to automatically track changes -- click on 'Special Pages' on the left.

jonawebb

2013-12-06 15:39:06

I'm working on some stuff off site, but haven't gotten around to transferring yet. Following Paul's lead, I'm starting to add some of my bookmarked links where appropriate. I think we should keep internet links on a different page though.

headloss

2013-12-06 15:44:31

jonawebb wrote:You can do that.

Ha, ha, chortle, chortle. I can't even work that ACA site.

edmonds59

2013-12-06 15:52:11

I will contribute eventually. This is about seventh on a list of five things I get to in any given night, and I will not work on it at work.

stuinmccandless

2013-12-06 17:21:15

Added some Main Page stuff. Also, a disclaimer on the Dangerous Drivers page.

ahlir

2013-12-06 20:25:15

Shop list is up, someone please check links and physical locations. http://bikingpgh.com/index.php?title=Shops I know one of these is incorrect, but I don't know which is the current address: Top Gear – Peters TWP, PA 4047 Washington Rd. McMurray (412) 343-6885 TRM Cycles 4100 Library Rd, Castle Shannon (412) 343-6885 ?

headloss

2013-12-07 02:28:53

I'm not sure how to best implement this, but I'm interested in the idea of potentially mapping out people's frequent routes and have them all overlaid on a big Pittsburgh map with the potential for notes to show up if you click on a certain highlighted section My idea is that people who ride a lot probably have figured out the best routes; It'd be kind of like a dynamic BikePGH map

sgtjonson

2013-12-07 04:21:03

@Pierce, yeah, i've been thinking about that too. You don't want just a list, you want some geographic guide. But I don't know how to implement it either and have been hoping someone will come up with a good idea. I think Google has some tools for making your own maps.

jonawebb

2013-12-07 08:23:21

Well I kludged around with my bit and seemed to make something out of it. I put it on the main page outline where it made sense, open to revision. Opinions welcome.

edmonds59

2013-12-07 12:06:14

edmonds59 wrote:Well I kludged around with my bit and seemed to make something out of it. I put it on the main page outline where it made sense, open to revision. Opinions welcome.

Works for now. We can make it a subcategory later if we add more cycling-style links i.e. polo, velodrome, etc.

headloss

2013-12-07 15:16:12

We had a spam attack, so Dan restricted account creation to sysops. So if you need an account on the wiki, ask me, Dan, or Ted.

jonawebb

2013-12-14 14:51:23

BIKEPGH MESSAGE BOARD ARCHIVE

We need a Biking in Pittsburgh Wiki